Comments on: Site Maps and Site Indexes, Revisited http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/ UIE\'s latest insights on the world of design Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:32:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Jared Spool http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-7936 Jared Spool Tue, 09 May 2006 19:37:01 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-7936 GW, The two value points you give them are true, except I'd suggest neither of them benefit the user really. There are more effective ways to get the search engine to index deeper *and* benefit the user simultaneously. And, haivng a central point for the organization or division is an internal issue, not something the user needs. You could keep it on a private portion of the site without troubling anyone. That's my thinking. GW,

The two value points you give them are true, except I’d suggest neither of them benefit the user really.

There are more effective ways to get the search engine to index deeper *and* benefit the user simultaneously.

And, haivng a central point for the organization or division is an internal issue, not something the user needs. You could keep it on a private portion of the site without troubling anyone.

That’s my thinking.

]]> By: GW http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-7935 GW Tue, 09 May 2006 19:23:19 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-7935 Sorry I'm a bit late on this, but count me in with the crowd that says site maps do have a great bit of use and worth. In short, I believe they do the following: 1) help search engines to index the deeper content pages on a site more easily, and 2) help an organization have a central point for the structure and organization of a website... and even they functions of their business in general. Its sort of an organizational or divisional map. For huge enterprises it may be more effort than reward, but for small or medium sized businesses/sites I highly recommend it. Sorry I’m a bit late on this, but count me in with the crowd that says site maps do have a great bit of use and worth. In short, I believe they do the following: 1) help search engines to index the deeper content pages on a site more easily, and 2) help an organization have a central point for the structure and organization of a website… and even they functions of their business in general. Its sort of an organizational or divisional map. For huge enterprises it may be more effort than reward, but for small or medium sized businesses/sites I highly recommend it.

]]> By: Jared Spool http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-949 Jared Spool Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:19:25 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-949 As I understand the W3C WAI guidelines, they suggest you just need something that acts like a site map, but doesn't have to be labeled as such. For example, a home page with the same content would likely meet the spirit of the guidelines, if not the letter. As I understand the W3C WAI guidelines, they suggest you just need something that acts like a site map, but doesn’t have to be labeled as such. For example, a home page with the same content would likely meet the spirit of the guidelines, if not the letter.

]]> By: Max http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-945 Max Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:58:52 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-945 Thanks for writing about this topic, Jared. Being of the same opinion, I recently went so far as to tell a client to ditch their site map as it was merely a list of links organised to reflect the site hierarchy. The primary navigation was already doing this well (but not showing all links all at once!). My suggestion hit a snag - W3C WAI guidelines: "13.3 Provide information about the general layout of a site (e.g. a site map or table of contents). [Priority 2] In describing site layout, highlight and explain available accessibility features." http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CORE-TECHS/#navigation Also, see the rationale provided by the RNIB: http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_sitemaps.hcsp So, as the client was looking to be Double-A compliant, we had to put the site map back in. I've looked at the WCAG 2.0 draft guidelines and it doesn't look like this requirement will be going away anytime soon. Any ideas how to be compliant without needing a site map or site index? Thanks for writing about this topic, Jared. Being of the same opinion, I recently went so far as to tell a client to ditch their site map as it was merely a list of links organised to reflect the site hierarchy. The primary navigation was already doing this well (but not showing all links all at once!). My suggestion hit a snag – W3C WAI guidelines:

“13.3 Provide information about the general layout of a site (e.g. a site map or table of contents). [Priority 2] In describing site layout, highlight and explain available accessibility features.”
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CORE-TECHS/#navigation

Also, see the rationale provided by the RNIB:
http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_sitemaps.hcsp

So, as the client was looking to be Double-A compliant, we had to put the site map back in. I’ve looked at the WCAG 2.0 draft guidelines and it doesn’t look like this requirement will be going away anytime soon.

Any ideas how to be compliant without needing a site map or site index?

]]> By: kstruct » Sitemaps and navigational search http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-910 kstruct » Sitemaps and navigational search Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:03:06 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-910 [...] There’s an interesting comment on Jared Spool’s Site Maps and Site Indexes, Revisited (a follow up to What about Site Maps and Site Indexes?) that site maps might help search engines ‘easily spider your site’. While I agree that site maps might make a good seed/starting point for a search engine, I don’t quite see how any crawling engine is going to be taken seriously if it can’t cope with a sitemap-less site. Getting a good starting point can useful in a multi-domain crawl assuming you only want one connection per domain at a time because it allows you to get up to the maximum number of threads quickly, but this isn’t usually an issue with individual sites. [...] [...] There’s an interesting comment on Jared Spool’s Site Maps and Site Indexes, Revisited (a follow up to What about Site Maps and Site Indexes?) that site maps might help search engines ‘easily spider your site’. While I agree that site maps might make a good seed/starting point for a search engine, I don’t quite see how any crawling engine is going to be taken seriously if it can’t cope with a sitemap-less site. Getting a good starting point can useful in a multi-domain crawl assuming you only want one connection per domain at a time because it allows you to get up to the maximum number of threads quickly, but this isn’t usually an issue with individual sites. [...]

]]> By: Jared Spool http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-909 Jared Spool Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:04:47 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-909 Nick, I fear an automated site map generator would only make a miserable site map easy to maintain. Figuring out the trigger words and clustering is the hard part and I don't know of an automated way to do that. Nick,

I fear an automated site map generator would only make a miserable site map easy to maintain. Figuring out the trigger words and clustering is the hard part and I don’t know of an automated way to do that.

]]> By: Nick Besseling http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/01/12/site-maps-and-site-indexes-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-906 Nick Besseling Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:57:55 +0000 http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/?p=161#comment-906 One of the really good uses of Site maps outside of a navigational sense is that search engines can use the site map (or site index) to easily spider your site. Some search engines do use links as a way to help work out page rankings thus a site map is valaubale in this sense. And why all this hoopla about keeping sitemaps/indexes up to date. Make simple script that dynamically creates site maps or indexs on the fly based on meta or title information or some other page indicator. Most web developers could do this within a day. Thus theres no need to worry about it and those users who like site maps and site indexes are still being served. One of the really good uses of Site maps outside of a navigational sense is that search engines can use the site map (or site index) to easily spider your site. Some search engines do use links as a way to help work out page rankings thus a site map is valaubale in this sense.

And why all this hoopla about keeping sitemaps/indexes up to date.
Make simple script that dynamically creates site maps or indexs on the fly based on meta or title information or some other page indicator.
Most web developers could do this within a day. Thus theres no need to worry about it and those users who like site maps and site indexes are still being served.

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